Podcast: Unraveling the entrepreneurial journey with Capim co-CEO Roberto Biselli

In this episode of Fintech Thought Leaders, QED's Head of Early Stage Investments Bill Cilluffo speaks with Capim co-CEO Roberto Biselli.

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Show notes

Bios

Bill Cilluffo joined QED as a Special Advisor in the fall of 2014 and became a Partner in 2015. He is currently Head of Early Stage Investments after six years as Head of International, leading QED’s Investment teams in Latin America, Europe and Asia.

Prior to joining QED, Bill spent nearly 20 years at Capital One, spanning several roles and leading several businesses. He spent the first 6 years of his career leading Marketing, product development and credit policy for Capital One’s subprime credit card business; ultimately having overall P&L responsibility, and growing the business to become the most significant player in the market. He moved on to spend 2 years in various new business development roles, spanning the telecom, medical finance and small business finance industries. Bill spent 3 years as Deputy Chief Credit Officer for the bank, playing nearly every role there was to play in the central credit function, after helping build the department from scratch in 2002.

Bill then pivoted his career to general management, leading Capital One’s Canadian, and ultimately International businesses, over the course of 6 years. Profitability of the business grew significantly under Bill’s leadership, through new product and channel introductions, acquisitions, and significant cost take out. During Bill’s last 3 years at Capital One, he led its Co-Brand and Private Label credit card business, building the business nearly from scratch to one of the top few players in the US market, through a series of acquisitions, most notably including leading the acquisition and post-merger integration of HSBC’s US credit card business, which closed in May 2012.

Bill graduated with a BA in economics from the University of Michigan, and competed the SEP program at Stanford GSB.

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Bill Cilluffo:

You're listening to the Fintech Thought Leaders podcast from QED Investors, your deep dive into the world of venture capital and financial services with today's digital disruptors. QED is a global venture capital firm focused on investing in fintech companies all the way from pre-seed to IPO. Fintech Thought Leaders brings together the most talented entrepreneurs tackling today's biggest problems. If you're looking to learn more about what motivates our founders and team members to succeed, you're in the right place. Hello and welcome to the Fintech Thought Leaders podcast. I'm Bill Cilluffo, the head of Early Stage Investments at QED Investors. Today on the podcast, I'm thrilled to be joined by Capim Co-CEO Roberto Biselli. Roberto, welcome to the podcast.

Roberto Biselli:

Thanks for the invitation, Bill. It's a pleasure to be here.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, it's awesome to have you. Look, before we really jump in on the full conversation, I'd love it if you could give the listeners maybe a 60 second commercial of what Capim is and what you guys do.

Roberto Biselli:

Sure. We offer a vertical software for dental clinics in Brazil with embedded financial products. So basically we run a management system in which the clinics can manage the relationship with the patient, their financials, internal financials, their operations, and also we offer the credit integrated with our products mainly Buy Now, Pay Later, which is basically credit for the patient to do the procedures.

Bill Cilluffo:

That's great. Well, you're a combination of several trends that have emerged in fintech over the last couple of years. So I'm excited to get on later on in the episode talking about how you chose that, how it's going, et cetera. But we usually really like to start just by getting to know you a little bit and kind of digging in a bit to your background because we find so many entrepreneurs, so influenced by various things across their career. So I'd love to go all the way back to when you were a kid. If we understand correctly, you're part of a huge family, youngest of nine children, that's got to have a massive influence over you. I'd love for you to just talk a little bit about the early days.

Roberto Biselli:

Yes, yes, sure. I'm the youngest of nine kids. To tell a little bit about the story, so my father was married, he had five kids, my mother was married, she had two. My father became a widower, my mother got divorced, they married, became seven and they had two additional kids. I'm the last one, and I think it says a lot about how I am today. I think my characteristics, growing up in a huge family make you develop naturally some communications and collaboration skills. So I think this shaped a little bit my style as an entrepreneur and also in my family, we have a strong traits of entrepreneurship, both on my father's side and my mother's side, and even my siblings, a lot of them are actually entrepreneurs or have been entrepreneurs. I grew up looking up at them and I think it also had an impact on my decision as well.

Bill Cilluffo:

So a bunch of people I know that are the youngest of many children wind up being very fast eaters because they have to compete at the dinner table. Is that true for you?

Roberto Biselli:

That's true, that's true. It was actually a race to get the food. No, I'm kidding. But that actually happens. That actually happens. We have a funny story when my brothers took some friends to our place and my mother said, "Please, go get the food." And they said, "No, no." They were polite saying, "No, no, we go later, we go later." And my mother said, "Come on, I have nine kids, if you go later, you probably won't find anything. Just go there, please." So it's funny,

Bill Cilluffo:

Isn't that the truth? And I'm sure some of them were teenagers at the time and I know how that goes. That's awesome.

Roberto Biselli:

Exactly, exactly.

Bill Cilluffo:

You mentioned that you've got a lot of family roots in entrepreneurship, both your mother's side, your father's side, your siblings. It runs deep. If I understand it all kind of started with your great-grandfather who had an entrepreneurial journey. I wonder if you can start there and maybe we can talk a bit about how it's run through your whole family.

Roberto Biselli:

Sure, sure. So, well, it comes from both sides of my family. So I'll start with my mother's side. So my great-grandfather, he opened several industries in Brazil. He had a bank as well, so credit was there as well.

Bill Cilluffo:

So you were destined for Fintech?

Roberto Biselli:

Exactly, exactly. But mainly industries. And actually he played a quite an important role in Brazilian industrialization. So I think that taught me since I was a kid, I looked and saw how much he could be impactful by being entrepreneur, how much his ventures had an impact in other people's lives and in the country as a whole. So I think this is the learning I took from my mother's side of my family. And look at my father's side, my father's side, actually they're Italian. My father was born in Italy and my grandfather came to Brazil when my father was eight to open a company. Actually he worked in an industry in Italy and he saw the opportunity, Fiat was coming to Brazil at that time, the automotive industry, and he saw the opportunity to provide some materials to Fiat. So he came to Brazil to open an industry together with his brothers.

And I think this comes to me as a great example of the courage to starting something new and when I'm afraid what the future will look like, what we will face in Capim, I always remember him. He changed the country with his whole family to start a new company. So I think this courage is a great example for me on a daily basis.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, for sure. What part of Italy are you originally from?

Roberto Biselli:

It's Piacenza, which is a city in the middle of Romagna, close to Milan, one hour from Milan. Yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

Nice, nice. Well, my family's from the opposite end. We're Sicily. I'm about fourth generation American. So you're a lot closer to the heritage than I am. So I've been to Italy, not Sicily yet. I'm going to need to get myself back there.

Roberto Biselli:

Sicily is very beautiful. You should go there. You should go there.

Bill Cilluffo:

That's what I hear. My dad finally went two years ago, so I'm going to have to follow in his footsteps and check it out. So let's keep digging on this entrepreneurial journey. So you mentioned many of your siblings have also gone down the entrepreneurial route. If I understand, seven of the nine are pursuing something in the entrepreneurial space?

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

That is absolutely incredible. How is it being able to connect with family and being able to share your journeys? I know entrepreneurship is often a lonely road. It's got to be helpful having a nice support system.

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, for sure. I think I forgot to mention, but my parents also, both of them were entrepreneurs. So my father, he studied in Stanford in the early seventies and since then he came back to Brazil and opened several companies related to technology. And my mother, she had a PR agency, she was completely focused on tech companies. So when Bill Gates, Craig Barr, Bill Joy, when these guys came to Brazil, she was the one covering their PR work here in Brazil. So I think we grew up not only with these entrepreneurship roots but also close to the tech world. I think it played quite an important role for us. And talking about my siblings, so actually six of them are/were entrepreneurs, including myself. The other three, one is a medical doctor, the other is a partner at BCG, and the third one is a professor, she's academic.

And basically from the six, one has a law firm, the other has an architecture firm, but the other three work more close to tech as well. So two of them work together. They have a software, actually a vertical software as well, focused on supermarket is stock management slash pricing software for supermarkets. And my brother, he used to have a company, a last mile logistics company involving a lot of tech. He sold this company three, four years ago to a large company here in Brazil and he's been working in this company right now. But I'm sure soon he'll go back to the entrepreneurship journey.

When I grew up I used to go a lot to my parents' office and then later to my sibling's office. So I think I grew up in an environment of business and innovating and creating something new. And I think in these tough moments of entrepreneurship, my family represents an important part of a support group for me. So I weekly talk to several of them, at least have lunch with one one day, have dinner with the other another day, including my parents to share what's the struggling part has been. And they always have great advice for me to go through it. So it's quite important for me.

Bill Cilluffo:

It makes sense. Do you remember what the best piece of advice is that any family member has ever given you?

Roberto Biselli:

From my father when we grew up he said, "I don't want to raise yes mans. So always have critical thinking and always challenge the status quo." I think that's actually a little bit why we became entrepreneurs and a lot of us thought about disruption. Also, my parents always told us, "Always raise the bar." This was a sentence they always mentioned. So always go for something bigger. When you achieve something great, celebrate, but then think about the next thing you can do. And finally I think about, I work a while with my siblings and I remember the way they manage people was quite remarkable. They were very human. And when you are an entrepreneur, it's quite hard because if you are a compassionate person, if you are empathic, you end up with some difficult situations. It's never easy to fire someone or something like this. And I remember my brothers telling me, "You need to fire people, it's part of your job, but do it in a human way. So no one should be surprised that they are being fired. So you should have given them several feedbacks before and when it happens, really understand the person's situation and try to figure out how you can support a person." So I think that's quite unusual and it taught me a lot and we really tried to apply this to Capim.

Bill Cilluffo:

That is great advice. And I think that's something that our entire industry is learning over the last year or so is how important that is. And a lot of times how you're able to manage letting people go says so much and is so important to the people that remain and says so much about your culture. So I think that's really, really important. And again, you hope you're never in that situation, but to your point, the reality is almost certainly you will be. Really important aspect there. So switching gears a little bit, I understand to both you and your family, both faith and social service are kind of ingrained in you. How did that play affect you as you went into the entrepreneurial world?

Roberto Biselli:

So basically we are a Catholic family and this represents a lot of who we are and I think it brings us to the way we measure our lives has a lot to do with the impact we have in other people's lives. So again, I think it also brings something to entrepreneurship because with entrepreneurship you can actually on your day-to-day impact people's lives, thousands of people. So it's quite rewarding. And since I was a teenager, I did a lot of social works, actually my first ventures were related to social work. I created some projects with some friends when I was in high school.

I think for a long part of my life I was in two worlds. So when I started to work, when I went to McKinsey, for example, so I work in McKinsey from Monday to Friday, not exactly with something, I saw a lot of social impact. And then on weekends I work with social impact. So entrepreneurship was the way I found to bring these things together. So I don't need to have an impact on people's lives, only on weekends. I can have it on a daily basis if I open a company in a sector I really believe that that needs to be changed. So this was very important for my decision to become an entrepreneur.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, well it's very easy to see why enabling people to afford healthcare treatments very much fits with that motivation. So it's pretty easy to see that connection.

Roberto Biselli:

Exactly.

Bill Cilluffo:

If I understand, when you graduated, you wound up sort of skipping a school kind of graduation party to go help build schools in Chile. Did I hear that correctly?

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, that's true. When I was in high school, probably my brother told the story to you. We went together to Chile, I think it was last week we had the panel and the Fontes Summit with Eduardo, the CEO of Betterfly, and he said something to which I relate a lot, which is, "Tough decisions, easy life, easy decisions, tough life." I think this was the first time I realized that it was a tough decision at that time. Now looking back, it's not something big, but at that time all my friends were traveling to Cancun to celebrate and I said, "No, I'm going to Chile. There was an earthquake there. So I think I can help people there." And it was a tough decision, but I think helping other people instead of focusing on myself can be quite rewarding. And I think that's when I realized that. So that trip had a huge impact on me. I was 17 at that time and I think my decisions after that were significantly impacted by that decision.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, that's really impressive. I can guarantee as a 17-year old I would not have had the maturity to make that decision. So I'm really, really, really impressed. Well look, if we can fast-forward a bit, it was great going through the background and focus on the start of the business career. So you spent some time at McKinsey, I'm sure you have a nice rivalry with your BCG brother.

Roberto Biselli:

Exactly.

Bill Cilluffo:

Part of your role at McKinsey was working in the embedded fintech and credit and POS world. Obviously things that are very important to Capim today. I guess was that an important part of what caused you to get into Capim or was it a bit of a random thing? I'd love to hear your experience while you were at McKinsey.

Roberto Biselli:

I joined McKinsey after working for one year with my siblings that were running their software company. So I already knew I wanted to become entrepreneur, but I felt I needed to get some structure and to learn a little bit more about business before running my own business. So I joined wanting to do the most projects I could. So in a little bit more than two years, I did more than 10 projects and a lot of them were related to credit. One in particular was to structure a digital wallet for a major retailer. And there I realized how powerful the credit in the point of sale was to that player to increase their sales and to give access to people to access their products. And I thought to myself that the small and mid-sized retailers in Brazil didn't have similar solutions. So of course they lost a lot of opportunities and their clients as well.

So I started to study a little bit the [inaudible 00:14:51] landing block and I got to the Buy Now Pay Later block. And then when I went to INSEAD, I was already thinking a lot about Buy Now, Pay Later. And then I met Marcelo and then we started to bring ideas together. Marcelo had a great experience in the healthcare sector and he brought, "Oh, this could work perfectly in the healthcare sector." So we were merging ideas and then we launched Capim that initially was a Buy Now, Pay Later for the healthcare sector. Then it evolved to what it is now. But initially it was the combination of the two of us, our experiences, what we discussed together. So I think my time in McKinsey was important for this part.

Bill Cilluffo:

That makes sense. Well, if you describe it that way, it's a perfect match. You had skills on Buy Now, Pay Later, and had studied. He brings healthcare. Hey, this is easy. I have a feeling it wasn't really that easy in practice, right? How many ideas do you guys think you went through before you settled on this one?

Roberto Biselli:

I would say one, to be honest.

Bill Cilluffo:

So you got here pretty quick?

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah. Initially we were Buy Now, Pay Later, more focused on three sectors, so healthcare, education and housing. Then we decide, "Okay, let's focus 100% in healthcare." But then the idea evolved after. So basically we started in a clinic that's more a general clinic with a lot of different procedures, but then we started to reflect and realize that the dental industry would be the best fit for us because it's the largest industry in terms of number of establishments in Brazil. So we have more than 200,000 dental offices all over Brazil. And also for giving credit, there were some great dynamics. So basically HMOs in Brazil don't usually cover dental procedures and people pay out of the pocket. So basically Buy Now, Pay Later could fit much more than in other sectors of healthcare in which people have HMOs. So then we changed a little bit together to, "Okay, we are a Buy Now, Pay Later more in the dental sector."

And then after we were working, already with dental services, we realized that clinics did a lot of things on pen and paper. So basically we said, "Okay, we can support them not only with our credit solution, but also we can help them better manage their clinics." So that's why we said, "Okay, let's launch an operating system that helps them operate their scheduling, their patient information, their financial information, and we embed our credit products in this system." So that's how the idea evolved. So I think we test only one idea before getting to this one, but the final idea evolved quite a lot as well. So yeah, here we are.

Bill Cilluffo:

That makes good sense. How have you found that change? It's not a full pivot. You still do Buy Now, Pay Later, and that's still a big part of your value proposition. But being a vertical SaaS player next to a Buy Now, Pay Later player, those aren't always the same skill sets, they're serving the same client. But how challenging has making that move been for you guys?

Roberto Biselli:

It hasn't been easy. I think we had to change some structures in the company, even the way we think, we were more sales led, now we are more product led. Our commercial area was more focused on outbound and large partnerships. Now we are focusing on the small dentists and really doing inbound as the main strategy for acquiring clinics. So it has impacted a lot like our internal structure, but I'm quite happy with the pace we could do this shift. So our credit and collection teams are super strong, our numbers look very good, like FPD is super low. But at the same time we see our product and commercial teams adapting very well. And in the last quarter was the first quarter we saw now all the engines are running in a good way. And I think now we're starting to grow the business as a whole. Everything integrated, now everything is looking good for the client point of view.

Bill Cilluffo:

No, that's great. That's great. Well look, you guys have made a lot of progress, but you're still only a couple year old company from your days at INSEAD. I remember when we first met you, you guys were still at INSEAD Just thinking about the business idea, look forward for the next year or so, what are a couple of the main priorities that you guys are pursuing right now?

Roberto Biselli:

First of all, we want to solve the pains for the dental industry. So we are very focused on this vertical and the idea is now we have vertical software with embedded products. We need to have the best software in the market, the really easy to play and clinics really love our product. This is the step one. But then we see ahead the opportunity to launch other solutions for the dental industry. So for example, we saw that the dental industry also have a pain to purchase new products. So there's potentially an opportunity for a B2B marketplace, for example. So the idea is to start to bring some other products to this vertical. And after that we'll expand to another vertical. The closest vertical to the dental industry is the aesthetic one. So aesthetic procedures in Brazil are also not covered by HMOs is also a very large sector. And it has an intersection quite largely with dentists. So some dentists already do aesthetic procedures, so probably will be the next vertical we are going to solve the pain for the clinics.

Bill Cilluffo:

No, that makes sense. As you're in the stage company you're in, there's 20 decisions you're making every day. As you look back, are there decisions that seemed really complex and hard at the time that you guys made a decision and you look back and say, "Hey, that was absolutely right. We weren't sure which way to go, we picked away, but that was definitely correct"? And then conversely, is there a major mistake that you guys made along the way that had to go back later and kind of change course based on a major mistake you made?

Roberto Biselli:

The major mistake came later with a great decision. So I think it was almost the same direction. So initially we thought we could be the bank for the clinic so we could offer a full set of financial products. And with this full set of financial products, we could really support clinics in their pains. And then we realized after three, four months, this is not working. These products don't have attachment between themselves. We're offering a bunch of different things, they have no connection. And then we got to the right decision, which was, so since there's this pain of the software that we realized later talking to clinics, let's build a software, build a management system, and this will be the core with the financial products embedded. So I think the wrong decision was to be the bank for the clinics. And later it came like, "Okay, we learn." And we said, "Okay, it's much better to be the vertical software for these clinics and have the financial products embedded." So, yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

That makes a lot of sense. So sounds like the whole step of the way everything's been related. So you kind of started with the BNPL product, you then kind of went a bigger vision, you kind of came back a little bit, found the thing. So it's an interesting journey where you've kind of built something different than what you set out for, but at some level you can see the commonality and you can see the thread and you can see how even a potential misstep kind of led to something pretty successful. It's kind of interesting to see that journey take place.

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, that's true. I think it was a super important learning process for both me and Marcelo. We are first time entrepreneurs, so trying a lot of different things. In the beginning we had several ideas and we said, "Okay, let's keep to less ideas and do these ideas, quite close." So yeah, it's been an interesting journey.

Bill Cilluffo:

Makes sense. So you and Marcelo essentially kind of hold co-CEO titles. How do you guys think about splitting up the world? And it's a model that it's not unique. Other companies certainly pursue this model, but it's probably not the norm. How do you guys split up the world? And then I'd love to explore that aspect for a bit.

Roberto Biselli:

First of all, I think it's important to mention how was the early days of our relationship. So I met Marcelo in the MBA and two weeks later a lockdown came. It was during pandemic. So we went to the countryside to live together, Marcelo and I together with our wives, the four of us. So we lived together for two months. And I think that was quite important because we were discussing Capim the whole day, but we were also getting to know each other very well personally.

And I think it was fundamental for us to be partners like nowadays and to be co-CEOs because we know each other very well and we know how to solve problems together. In terms of how we split, so basically it also relates, we try to be on opposite sides in a constructive way. So for example, I look at product and tech, Marcelo, looks at commercial marketing. I look at HR, Marcelo looks at finance, I look at credit, Marcelo looks at collections. So I think we are always discussing some of the more strategic topics together. And I think for us it can be quite powerful. We have different styles of thinking, different visions, and when we bring them together, I think we can be really constructive and it can be really powerful to Capim.

Bill Cilluffo:

That's a great story you tell about how you guys got to know each other in the lockdown. I imagine your wives also know each other quite well.

Roberto Biselli:

Exactly.

Bill Cilluffo:

As you've got quite the family affair going, which is pretty neat. I'd love to move into our last segment here talking about leadership and how you think about that. I understand you've got three main values at Capim, if I've got these right, transparency, productivity, problem solving. Given how close you guys were when you got things started, it makes sense that you'd have your values codified pretty early. How did you come to those three? Why are those three so important to you guys?

Roberto Biselli:

So it's hard to translate because they're not exactly these, but I'll try to explain a little bit deeper. So basically there's the first one, which is transparency. So I think is basic for all of us to be transparent because we need to give constant feedback and we need to evolve together as professionals. So we really need people to raise their hands and talk something through. If they don't agree with something, they need to raise their hand and let us know. So this is very important. The second one is not productivity itself. We call crazy about productiveness. I don't know if the translation is good, but the idea is to grow ourselves every day and each one of us trying to be the best of me every day and one day after the other be better than I was in the previous day. So I think this says a lot about this continuous improvement as a company, as each one of us as professionals.

And the third one is if it is a problem of Capim, it is my own problem. This is how we frame it. And the idea is to bring ownership to people and also increase collaboration. So there's no such problem that you would say, "Okay, this is from another area, it doesn't make sense." If you see a problem, you should see yourself as part of the solution. So okay, it can be relayed to another area, but you need to go there. You need to help them solve, you need to collaborate. So this is how I think through our values. And to be honest, it took us a while to frame them because we already live them, but it was hard for us to summarize in just three blocks and we didn't want to have many, many values. So it took us a while to really get to these words. And it's hard to translate. So in Portuguese it's even clearer, but it was hard for us to get to these words and we are quite happy with what we built now in terms of values.

Bill Cilluffo:

I love the description, especially that last one. My experience with values are that they're always a little bit aspirational, if you don't live them at all, they don't work at all because people don't believe them. But I don't know, if you achieve every one of them every day, they almost don't set the bar high enough, if that makes sense. Which of these do you feel like Capim most fully lives up to? And which one of these, is there still an aspiration that you haven't quite achieved where you want to get to yet, but you see yourself on the path?

Roberto Biselli:

So the most aspirational one is definitely crazy about productivity. It's hard. We are trying to be better every day, be the best of ourselves, and this is hard to do every day on your life. So it's quite aspirational. And I think the one that we really live almost 100% I would say is the transparency one. So we really give a lot of feedback, receive a lot of feedback. We have all hands that people really make the tough questions and we are really open. For example, after we have our board meetings, we show to people, "Okay, this is what we are discussing in our board meetings." So people have a lot of access to information and this is because we want them to give us feedback as well. So the transparency block, I think we live almost 200%.

Bill Cilluffo:

That makes sense. And I've certainly seen some corporate values that fail on either end of this, right? If you only pick things you're only good at, you don't wind up striving for what you want to strive for. But sometimes they've been set so aspirationally that it doesn't really match the reality. And that's tough too. It sounds like you guys have a really nice balance there.

So let me finish with a couple kind of questions on more of the sort of personal and motivation side. We had a chance to chat with a handful of folks to do research. So I don't know, maybe this is the how do we embarrass you part of the podcast?

Roberto Biselli:

Okay.

Bill Cilluffo:

We talked to Andre who was talking about how you love to be challenged and once upon a time, I guess, I don't know, maybe you were bribed in that in order to go visit him in Chile you had to ace a calculus exam. Just raised that as an example of just how you can get motivated by a challenge and how that's sort of really important to you. Whether it's about that anecdote or something else, how do you think about taking on challenges and how important is that to your own motivation?

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, I think here it goes back a little bit about our education. So as I mentioned, my parents were always raising the bar. So this time is actually funny. My brother was doing an exchange program in Chile. I wanted to visit him and I was the first semester of economics course and calculus was the most difficult subject. And my father said, "Okay, you can go, but you need to get 10 in the two exams." Actually it was not even one, it was for two. And actually like I said, "Okay, I'll do it." And I studied a lot and I got both of the A's, the tens, and I was quite happy to visit him.

And I think it makes you value more your achievements. I would say when you have pushed a high bar for yourself. And I think for me, to be honest, I'm daily challenging myself to be a better father, better husband, a better entrepreneur. Every night I look at my day said and say, "Okay, what did I do good, what I'm grateful for? But on the other hand, okay, what should I have done better?" And then I take notes on the idea to always challenge myself to be a better person and a better professional. Yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

That's amazing. And clearly what you're trying to take on now is no short task. How do you become an operating system for dental clinics? How do you provide a bunch of financial products both to them and their customers? That's a pretty ambitious goal. So you can see that coming through. We had a chance to talk to your wife, Barbara, she said great things of course, but one of the anecdotes she shared with us is how the city of Sao Paulo implemented bike lanes and that you were a believer in the policy and so much of a believer in the policy that you changed your own commuting patterns and were determined to ride your bike every day, even though, I've been to Sao Paulo, the roads are terrible, tons of hills true up and down, and I've often show up to meetings as a sweaty mess because I walk up and down all these crazy hills. She said you believed in the policy so strongly that you were just determined to be part of it. Where does that come from at times it's not remotely convenient for you, but believe in it so much that you want to be part of it?

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, so basically, that's funny actually. I was called for a while in university, this is in the law school, the bike boy, because I was the only one that rode a bike to school. But basically, I think it comes back a little bit to the quote I mentioned, "Hard decisions, easy life; easy decisions decisions, hard life." I've always tried to live up to my values. And when they launched this, Sao Paulo has a huge mobility problem. And when this mayor launched the bike lanes and really trying to... He did two important policies, the bike lanes, and he expanded a lot, the bus lanes for people that live far away. So it was quite impactful, I think, in people's lives.

And I said, "Okay, how can I support this initiative?" And I said, "The way for me to support is using it." It was not close to my house. So the university was almost seven kilometers from my house, but it was quite nice because I felt, okay, it's hard to get there, but I'm doing my way to support this initiative. I'm doing what I can to support this improvement in Sao Paulo's mobility. So it felt quite rewarding as well. So yeah, it's a nice story. It's good to remember about it. Yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

You realize every time I see you, I'm going to call you bike boy now. Right.

Roberto Biselli:

Okay.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, no, I'm the walking version of that. I kind of walk everywhere I can and people make fun of me for it, but I figure if I sit in an Uber for 40 minutes or I walk somewhere in 50, it's just a lot more healthier choice to make the walk. So I can very much relate. I can relate. Look, just sharing a different side. We also heard a great story from Barbara talking about how she was given a class presentation and she froze and how you were there to help her through it and be part of it. And again, as a leader, sometimes you need to know when do you set aggressive goals and push people hard and focus on productivity, but then how do you focus on the human side and compassion? And we've got some great examples of you playing both of those. How do you think about the compassionate side as a leader and as a CEO?

Roberto Biselli:

To be honest, this is something I think I'm still in early days off my learning curve, but it's hard. I kind of relate a lot with people's pain, I have a lot of empathy usually, and it's hard. For example, the case I mentioned, firing someone, it's hard and it's something you need to do. And every time I fire someone in Capim, I felt bad about it. I felt bad about it in one day, two days. But in the end, I think it comes back to the point you need to humanize the process. And if you humanize the process, it all makes sense.

So as I mentioned, in Capim, to fire someone, this person needs to receive several feedbacks before being fired. So it cannot be a surprise for the person. And I think this kind of makes me think, "Okay, we are doing some tough decisions, but we are taking the tough decisions in the right way." So it goes back to tough decisions, easy life. So I think that's how I've been thinking to the process, but it's still hard for me. It's still hard. When we need to dismiss someone, I always struggle for one or two days. In theory I know, okay, this is the right thing, but internally it's not easy for me to be honest. Yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

Well look, that's a good thing. If you didn't struggle with it, then there's different sets of problems potentially. It's one of the hardest things leaders have to do. And in general, how do you balance setting the bar really high while also being empathetic to people's situations and getting that balance is never easy. Last significant question before we wrap up. You're a new father, we're at different ends of the kid journey. Mine are both in university and you're just getting started here with a six-month old at home. Obviously you're early in the journey, but what has the last six months taught you?

Roberto Biselli:

It was tough. I think the first few months were quite hard because I used to work late hours in Capim, go back home, and at the same time I said, "Okay, I want to do everything." So at night I spent the night with the kid, 100% at work, 100% at home, and then realized, okay, that's not possible. I need to create some rules to create this balance. So in the past three months, I think I organized things. So basically what I do is in the mornings I spend quality time with my kid before coming to work. So I wake up early, spend some quality time with him, it gives me a lot of energy to go to work. I try to go back home to have lunch at home. I live close by to Capim's office, so this helps a lot. So it's another moment that I can have with my kid.

And finally I try to be at home at maximum 8:30 PM because that's when he goes to bed. At least I have a few minutes to give him a kiss and say goodnight. So I think with this unnegotiable moments that I built, I allow myself to be 100% when I'm in the office. So I think it was important both for me as a father, but for me in Capim because then when I'm here, I'm 100% and I say, "Okay, I'm energized and I'm not thinking about, okay, should I be doing something for my kids?" So I think this balance, it was not easy to find it, but now I'm quite happy with it.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, it's great to hear how you've done that. There's no right answer. Everybody figures out their own way of managing these. That's a neat plan. I'm not sure I've heard the go home for lunch one before. That's a cool idea and taking advantage of the proximity. So that's definitely a neat one. Well, look, it's been really great talking to you today. I'm also going to have to share kudos to Eduardo with his hard decisions, easy life framework that's clearly resonated.

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, that's good.

Bill Cilluffo:

I think it's a pretty cool one too, but it's great to hear that really resonate. But as we wrap up, just one final thing, I'd like to end all of these recognizing that hopefully over time we'll have a bunch of aspiring entrepreneurs listening to this. What's one piece of advice you would give somebody who's thinking about starting their first company?

Roberto Biselli:

Yeah, I would say be humble and constantly learn from your clients. I think it is fundamental to constantly speak to your clients. I think in the beginning of campaign we spoke less than we should, and I think as time went by, we started to talk more and more. In the end, we need to be humble and put our hypothesis, test them, see if they make sense and test with the client. So be extremely close to the clients because if you do so, you can understand their pain and then you can really solve their problems. Yeah.

Bill Cilluffo:

Yeah, be humble. I love the advice, comes in so helpful in so many different circumstances. Well, thank you so much for joining today, Roberto. I've really enjoyed this conversation. To all you listeners, take care and thanks for listening.

Roberto Biselli:

Thank you, Bill. It was a pleasure.

Bill Cilluffo:

This has been the Fintech Thought Leaders podcast, your window into the world of venture capital and financial services with today's digital disruptors. QED is proud to provide the best fintech advice you can get. To learn more or to read the full show notes from today's episode, check out QEDinvestors.com. And be sure to also follow QED on Twitter and LinkedIn at QED Investors. Thanks for listening.

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